The restrictions of a Catholic Upbringing
April 10th 2007 02:54
Im re-reading the bible. Its an old Catholic version, of course, we only have Catholic versions, being Catholics. Its enough to make you hate God. Get this, from 'Deuteronomy'
" Let there not be found amoung you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fourtune teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, and because of such abomniations to the LORD, your God, is driving these nations out of your way."
You can imagine, when I first began to hear my dead grandfathers voice, when I first began to hear my animals speak, have premonitions in vision and dreams and realize that when I directed energy to thought things happened statements like the one above utterly terrified me. What was happenening? Id always been good, gone to church, done my duty, tried my utmost to be a 'good girl'. Why was I being visited with this nightmare that made me an 'abomination to the LORD'.
I repented, went to confession, took communion, spoke with the Father. I sung harder in choir, I prayed reverently and its a medical fact that my knees will never recover from the hard wooden pews. Once, to find relief from the pain while in an hour long session, I eased myself onto the carpet. I was discovered and forced to spend another hour on the pew. "Look up at Jesus - sufferring on the cross, and you tell me you cant kneel on a wooden pew for the length of the mass!"
People can go on about the virtues of the faith all they like, but anyone who believes every word of this book like absolute truth is an idiot, plain and simple. Who wrote it? Why, Jesus' apostles. Right. How do you know? And if it WAS them, how did they know? Did they tweek it here, or there, just to make it sound extra good? To make themselves sound extra good? There was probably a marketing executive there saying, "no, man, people are into vengeful God this century, got it? VENGEFUL yep, we'll do the love thing in a couple hundred years..."
I believed blindly and stupidly, until I became a history student, and learned about primary and secondary sources. I see the book in a whole new light. I believe none of it. I wonder, who did write this verse, or that verse. What was his (or her?) purpose? What were they trying to achieve? What did they want us to think of it all, and most important, them?
Heres a good one to finish on, also from 'Deuteronomy'
" No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off, may be admitted into the community of the LORD."
I am not joking. Its really there. Does anyone actually believe this shit?
There will be more.....
" Let there not be found amoung you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fourtune teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, and because of such abomniations to the LORD, your God, is driving these nations out of your way."
You can imagine, when I first began to hear my dead grandfathers voice, when I first began to hear my animals speak, have premonitions in vision and dreams and realize that when I directed energy to thought things happened statements like the one above utterly terrified me. What was happenening? Id always been good, gone to church, done my duty, tried my utmost to be a 'good girl'. Why was I being visited with this nightmare that made me an 'abomination to the LORD'.
I repented, went to confession, took communion, spoke with the Father. I sung harder in choir, I prayed reverently and its a medical fact that my knees will never recover from the hard wooden pews. Once, to find relief from the pain while in an hour long session, I eased myself onto the carpet. I was discovered and forced to spend another hour on the pew. "Look up at Jesus - sufferring on the cross, and you tell me you cant kneel on a wooden pew for the length of the mass!"
People can go on about the virtues of the faith all they like, but anyone who believes every word of this book like absolute truth is an idiot, plain and simple. Who wrote it? Why, Jesus' apostles. Right. How do you know? And if it WAS them, how did they know? Did they tweek it here, or there, just to make it sound extra good? To make themselves sound extra good? There was probably a marketing executive there saying, "no, man, people are into vengeful God this century, got it? VENGEFUL yep, we'll do the love thing in a couple hundred years..."
I believed blindly and stupidly, until I became a history student, and learned about primary and secondary sources. I see the book in a whole new light. I believe none of it. I wonder, who did write this verse, or that verse. What was his (or her?) purpose? What were they trying to achieve? What did they want us to think of it all, and most important, them?
Heres a good one to finish on, also from 'Deuteronomy'
" No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off, may be admitted into the community of the LORD."
I am not joking. Its really there. Does anyone actually believe this shit?
There will be more.....
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Comment by KylieW
Celebrity Obsession
I've never read the bible, so I didn't realise it had this kind of crap in there. Organised religion is something I have a real dislike of (to put it mildly). I just don't get how people can put so much faith in a book written by a bunch of folks 2000 years ago.
The ancient Greeks used to have stories about their Gods and Goddesses to explain how things like how the sun rose in the sky, and why there were storms. It made them feel better to have an explaination for how these things happened. To me, that's what the bible is. A bunch of stories to help explain life in that time. Frankly, I just don't see the relevance of most of it today.
But then I don't believe in God, so I'm never going to advocate what's written in the bible!
Kylie
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
When you read it, it just looks like a jigsaw thats been cut up and now its all incomplete and out of order. Ours is quite old, and Im sure that the new versions have been changed for today....Pathetic. Organised religion leads to dogma which leads to bad karma...hehe
Comment by katyzzz
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Not always, but how could one be a true believer under those circumstances.
I'm a mixture of Church of England, Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, and have been baptised twice, once as a Catholic and also follow the religion of katyzzz.
My step grandmother was a Catholic and a dreadful bigot, the rest of the time she was nice.
I have had many good Catholic friends.
My mother believed in practical Christianity.
I must say I found all of my experiences very positive, with some notable exceptions, people after all, whatever the religion.
On the whole I'd give Christianity a plus, but with your experiences I'm sure I'd feel like you do.
'Tis a strange world, full of strange happenings, and I'm sure Shakespeare got that just right.
Cast out the demons and come out from the shadows, that you may experience the light.
You have my complete sympathy.
Talk to the animals, I'm sure they have more wisdom than MAN.
katyzzz
Comment by Ash
Flashes of memories
wow... you are certainly very passionate about this hey! I was confirmed in the Anglican church and although I don`t attend Church I find Religion an important part of my being. It is hard for me to put into words how I feel, but it pains me that Christians are the biggest deterant to religion than atheists or otherwise.
I must admit that I used to read my Bible religiously, now I am more into prayer and talking with God, developing a relationship that I understand a little more... I don`t profess to be the best Christian but I like to think that as a religious person it is also my duty to realise that I am only human, I make mistakes, I sin and I try to find ways of forgiveness for my sins so that I can be a better person... is that not what any religion teaches?
I have witnessed too many miracles to not have faith and also had a lot of my prayers which have not been answered... but I have also come to realise that sometimes they have not been answered for me because they were selfish from my point of view.... they were answered for the other people that were involved because that was what they were asking...
I have a lot of questions because of the interpretations of the Bible... people change it according to how they want the message shared. Religion through history has been used to command power over people, to sway them this way and that way because they could not interpret it themselves.
That is also just another part of religion.... where you find a place where the interpretation matches the one that you have... as a believer in God I like to think that He would want our relationships to mean more than just a simple regurgitation of someone elses interpretation... for it to be personal and our own, unique relationship.
DOn`t know if that makes any sense....
ash
Comment by Ahmed
Video Gamer Kids
Little Green Foosballs
PolyKicks
Yeah, about a week ago I wouldn't have believed that, but apparently the Bible does go about insulting Messengers of god quite liberally, and if it does that, well, it can do anything.
Comment by katyzzz
Photography Tips
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I'm not the only one who feels passionate about this, eh?
katyzzz....hope Kleo is still in good order and condition.
Comment by KylieW
Celebrity Obsession
Your post made me think about an episode of The West Wing that I loved. There's a scene where President Barlett has a go at a rightwing conservative religious radio announcer (Dr Jacobs). It goes like this:
JACOBS: I don’t say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.
BARTLET: Yes it does. Leviticus!
JACOBS: 18:22.
BARTLET: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I wanted to sell my youngest daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She’s a Georgetown Sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?
(Bartlet only waits a second for a response, then plunges on.)
BARTLET: While thinking about that, can I ask another? My chief of staff, Leo McGary, insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? Or is it okay to call the police?
(Bartlet barely pauses to take a breath.)
BARTLET: Here’s one that’s really important, because we’ve got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you?
Kylie
Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
Evidently you feel very strongly about your views. But I have a question for you.
Do you appreciate the fact that you can make this decision about faith and religion based on experience and study as opposed to rumour and hearsay?
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
Katyzzz,
I like the idea of the church of Katyzzz! Thats fantastic! I dont say christians catholics whatever are bad people, just misled. The vatican could buy and sell the whole world, yet they dont feed the hungry. Its always been this way. Im starting to feel like the Devil himself started this religion.
You have unwittingly touched upon a deep point here - Come into the light you say. Well. When it became obvious that I was 'an abomination to the LORD' I tried everything to get rid of it. I loved mass, I loved Jesus, I loved religion class. I didnt want to be evil or unclean. It terrified me that I could be kicked out for something I didnt ask for.
With talking to animals and researching witchcraft, I realized theres another view of the world - where there is no good, no evil, just a vast balance that must be maintained. I profess to believe that with my whole being. It explains everything, makes perfect sense. I WANT so badly to believe in the universal balance - I chant it everyday, bad things and good things, they all just happen to maintain the balance.
But what I actually believe?
That somewhere along the line, I stepped over. I stopped fighting. Anything I say to justify my actions means nothing - Im an outcast, unclean in the eyes of the LORD, so why fight? Why justify? Im having a lot more fun in the dark than I ever did trying desperately to be good and never quite getting there. Its so much easier to be bad. I quite like it over here.
Ash,
I do not like the idea of 'sin' at all. As I said above, its all balance, it should all come down to that. And, trying to 'find you own way' is great in my book, but thats another 'sin' in Catholisim!
The only miracles I have ever seen have been by spell workers like myself. Im able to see the concentration of their aura and feel the flow of energy. Ive seen some amazing things. But Ive never seen God.
The interpretation is a bitch isnt it? Any verse can be twisted for anyones purpose. Im glad that religion gives you comfort, to me, its all about the evolution of the soul. There is nothing but The Creator, in the end, all return to the communal concious, whatever path you take is up to you(Oh, My, another sin!)
Ahmed,
Im going to have a lot more crazy comments by the time Im done, don't worry! I had to read it three times before I believed it!
KylieW
Thats classic!
Mrs M
Which decision? Im not entirely sure Ive made one! But Im very pleased to be able to keep looking for answers objectively, even if it is a sin.
Hey, does everyone remember that scene from 'The Simpsons' (Im sure you will KylieW) Where Rev Lovejoy holds up the Bible and goes "according to this, your not allowed to go to the bathroom"
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Comment by Mrs M
Mum's Word
In your post you come across as being anti-religion...or maybe it's just anti-catholic.
Are you? It doesn't really matter which what your answer is, at least you have read, studied, participated and have subsequently formed an opinion from that.
I am non-practising Greek Orthodox and I came to my decision from having to endure it growing up. And for that I'm thankful I suppose because I know I've made my decision and have "the goods" to back it up. As opposed to just shrugging my shoulders and saying "just 'cause".
Do you know what I mean?
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
Thats exactly what my man said! Too bad man, thats the rules! 'Deuteronomy' is an extension of the ten commandments, so what God says goes....
Mrs M,
If you had asked me six months ago it would have been a resounding 'yes' but now Im not sure, hence the re reading of the bible. I suppose I am anti catholic, but my reasons are very personal - having bum knees for instance. I believe that if control of the religions was given back to the people who practice it (as the prophets originally intended) there would be no problem - having money and power hungry figure heads is just turning the whole thing evil.
I know what you mean. I like being able to say to people who preach to me - Look, I was raised Catholic, I know all that, but if you consider the bible from a historical standpoint instead of a religious one you can learn so much more....
Its a twisted road for me. I try to believe that I dont believe in it, that I have no respect for it, yet sometimes I feel like going and sitting in the church, seeing a mass, chatting to the priest....
And I remember Father Bob (with John Saffran, "speaking in tongues" Magnificent show) who was a faithful Catholic priest that just bent the rules whenever he felt like it.
Learning curve!
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Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
Comment by Lilla
From The Home Front
Enviro Warrior
Dream Herald
Esoteric Bookshop
Yep, hypocrisy through and through all three times I read it ... Jesus's tale, no doubt designed to give a very select few all the power and the majority, none of it. Couldn;t have everyone running around with all that freedom stuff amidst the politics of the Arabs, Jews and Romans... OMG what was he thinking? I've heard it many times that to truly understand exactly what Jesus was trying to teach you have to read the Buddhist tennant, as it is the practice of what he preached. (try the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying).
btw, the day I need a priest to talk to God, is the day God really is dead, Joe.
A great work of fiction, no doubts... but as fiction always is... still based in truth perhaps, but you need extensive study to reveal deeper meaning and some truth ... but always 'In context only,' in my experience.
I think many people forget that the old testiment covers approx. 120,000 years of human history and as such, witnesses the many changes of culture within that time ... Many tyrants came and went ... I mean, just look at Australia in 300 years!
I hadn't heard about the gonads law... can you imagine living in that society at the time? *lol* gosh perhaps even a certain size was also not acceptable?
Must dash, I've got a new set of Tarot cards I want to explore for work next week, it's an original deck and much better for tuning into the wishes of those on the other side, not to mention contacting my client's spiritual gudies and guardians ...
Lilla ....
Ps there is a new book out, I only had time to read the cover yesterday. Written by a Jewish fellow it is called God without Religion and quite interesting, but does not, of course cover the mystic, Jesus. You have to go to the east for that to Tibet.
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
Thanks for droppin in here....Your comment over on your post hit quite hard after Id been re reading here.
My friend in Canada asked me to read certain sections of the bible - guess what! The catholic version doesnt have them! We have an original old testament, gilded pages and all, heavy as housebricks. Its missing the chapters that he says are the most enlightening!
And if the bible is such an indication of absolute truth....Why have they changed it so many times?
Interesting that you keep mentioning Tibet - I consider it to be one of the most holy places on Earth and would love to trek from one side of the Himalayas to the other....I dont mind a bit of snow! And the spiritual insights would be unparalelled....
Im actually having half a debate with Damo atm. He seems to think Im anti religion when really Im just anti zealot. I guess I dont explain myself well enough!
Hope your tarot cards are all you hoped for...Im still doing first interpretations of mine!